SIP Provider for Small Business (that's not Vonage)
Submitted by Joe_CoT on Wed, 04/16/2008 - 10:23pm.
My company is currently testing using a Vonage Business Plus account (as described here) to provide SIP trunking for our Asterisk server. We are using the 5K minutes plan, which provides unlimited incoming minutes, 5000 outgoing minutes, 4 phone numbers, and unlimited simultaneous incoming and outgoing calls.
However, their customer service is atrocious. Getting things done can take the secretary almost 2 hours -- we're switching from an analog PBX using Vonage to an Asterisk PBX using Vonage through SIP, and their customer service is just as bad. My boss wants to switch providers.
We're looking for a provider that can provide the same or comparable service, for a comparable price -- either per minute or flat rate -- which can handle transferring our current number, and which has customer support worth speaking of (or hell, an email address of the tech I can talk to directly!). I don't need a big name company -- the most important factors are reliability, service, and cost.
Can anyone provide recommendations for a new service?
You'll find many of us who
Wed, 04/16/2008 - 10:37pm
You'll find many of us who disapprove of using VoIP as a primary business circuit here because of the inherent problems that come with delivering VoIP over the open internet.
That being said, I like Voice Pulse, but I really haven't used many others. DIDs are $11 each per month, unlimited inbound and all calls outbound (in the US) are billed at right around .01/min. That only gives you 4 channels, though, so you'll probably have to pay more for extra channels, and they run $20/month each. It probably works out to a little more than that vonage deal does, but it may be worth it for better customer service. I've never had a problem contacting someone when I needed help.
I only use them at home, and to give our company a local presence in a few markets around the country. I'm sure others will have their own pet VoIP providers too. :)
KodaK, it looks like
Wed, 04/16/2008 - 10:50pm
KodaK, it looks like VoicePulse a) requires one of three specific ATAs, b) locks me out of the settings while I use their service. Given that I'll be using Asterisk, thanks for the recommendation, but I don't think the service is right for me.
As for reliability problems, I've experienced nothing of the sort. We're trunking through our T1 internet connection, and we've been able to have 6-10 outside parties in an Asterisk conference without issue. Our Vonage account is very reliable -- it's just dealing with anyone when we need changes that's a problem.
Much like Vonage, VoicePulse
Wed, 04/16/2008 - 10:54pm
Much like Vonage, VoicePulse has a special area for SIP trunking:
Or follow the "Asterisk users" links at various places on their main site.
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As for reliability problems, I've experienced nothing of the sort. We're trunking through our T1 internet connection, and we've been able to have 6-10 outside parties in an Asterisk conference without issue.
I'll be eagerly awaiting your "my customers are complaining about voice quality, help!" post.
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Much like Vonage,
Wed, 04/16/2008 - 11:30pm
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Much like Vonage, VoicePulse has a special area for SIP trunking:
Too late at night for me to notice that :) thanks for pointing it out. I'll run that option past my boss tomorrow. I might also look at it when I change my mom's house over to voip.
Am I reading it right that it's 11/month for each phone number, but the account is free? I'm not seeing anything about the account costing anything. In that case, would it be cheaper to get 2 accounts with 2 different numbers, and forward from one to the other if the 4 slots are used up? Or, use one account for incoming, and the other for outgoing? I'm not a big fan of the whole "4 channel limit thing". I could understand if there was a limit on incoming calls, but not when outgoing is pay per minute. I'll probably give them a call, or possibly pay them a visit, given they're about 20 miles away.
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I'll be eagerly awaiting your "my customers are complaining about voice quality, help!" post.
Previously, our system used Vonage for service (sip), which went through ATAs (analog), which was sent through a pbx, which sent it to the phones (sip). That's the way it's been for 4 years -- we haven't had a complaint yet, and going all digital can only be an improvement. Do you think switching off of Vonage will introduce a dramatic drop in quality?
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Am I reading it right
Thu, 04/17/2008 - 7:41am
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Am I reading it right that it's 11/month for each phone number, but the account is free?
Yes, $11 per number + usage is all you pay, unless, of course, you get more channels.
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Do you think switching off of Vonage will introduce a dramatic drop in quality?
No, I think that VoIP over the open internet is a risky proposition for many reasons that have already been covered in these forums. Just because it's been reliable and it's reliable today is no guarantee that it'll be reliable tomorrow. There's no QoS, so there can't be. If your network utilization goes up, or a router at ISP X goes out, you'll have reduced quality or no service at all. And ISP X may be an ISP in the "middle" that you can't even complain to.
While Kodak is correct,
Thu, 04/17/2008 - 1:41pm
While Kodak is correct, theres many ways to remedy this kind of situation.
1) Keep a landline with local company in case of possible outages.
2) While being a little expensive, dual ISP's can provide redundancy in case of one ISP goes down. At the same time, you can use backup ISP connection for phones, while keeping primary ISP connection for data. Two diff providers = two diff pipes coming into ur business.
At my business we have Broadvoice, and while many complain about them, as long as you tweak settings, and ensure redundancy is in place, you should be fine. Thats my 2c
Alex
We'll be putting in a hard
Thu, 04/17/2008 - 2:16pm
Every time I call a company
Thu, 04/17/2008 - 2:33pm
Every time I call a company that uses VoIP over the open Internet as a primary communications medium I can always tell. Maybe my tolerance for that sort of thing is lower than many other people's, but when I'm calling a company to order products or services, and their connection is dropping out, echoing or popping it certainly doesn't instill me with the warm fuzzies. And, frankly, I'm embarrassed for them.
That is not the face I would want to present to my customers.
Sometimes it's just not an option, but I stand by the fact that if at all possible, you should have traditional telco service as your primary service, at least until VoIP QoS is common on the open Internet.
Failover
Thu, 04/17/2008 - 4:12pm
does anybody here use cisco
Thu, 04/17/2008 - 5:44pm
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I read a lot bout how
Thu, 04/17/2008 - 6:01pm
Consider the following
Thu, 04/17/2008 - 8:23pm
Consider the following scenario:
You<->Your ISP<->Some Other Carrier<->TSPs ISP<->TSP
If the problem exists with "You" then you can fix it.
If the problem exists with your ISP, your TSP or your TSPs ISP, you can probably make a phone call and have things taken care of.
If the problem is in the mysterious land of "Some Other Carrier" then there's nobody you can call that's obligated to listen to you. Your ISP might be able to make a call, but the more networks it has to hop around, then the less likely it is that you are to be able to identify, isolate and have that problem dealt with.
This scenario isn't as far fetched as many people think it is.
What do you want to hear?
Thu, 04/17/2008 - 8:59pm
I don't want to hear
Thu, 04/17/2008 - 9:13pm
I don't want to hear anything, by engaging in debate I advocate my position and hopefully stimulate critical thinking.
If you follow my posts I am very consistent in my advocacy that voice of the public Internet is not business class.
Managed Voip transported across a carrier class network can provide equivelent grade of service and reliability to circuit based telephony.
So I do not understand what "tweaking a system means"? Do you know what change management is?
Anything less than a MOS score of 4.0 and 4 9's of reliability is a compromise. My SLA's to my customers are letter for letter equivalent to the telco's.
When you pitch running Voip across a DSL, Cable Internet or an unmanaged T1 to your customer do you tell them the exact risks?
We run into this all day long, if you want to run your $50.00/mo Voip circuit over your $75.00/mo Internet connection good luck to you. If after explaining the differences in service the potential customer does not want to spend the money we tell them to have a nice day and walk away from the deal.
It's the same reason we recertify the entire cable plant before we install at the customer premise. We either do it right or we don't do it.
Scott
Do i explain the risks of
Thu, 04/17/2008 - 9:42pm
Do i explain the risks of getting voip?.. of course i do.. do i ensure enough redundancy is in place to ensure business continues during an outage... OF COURSE... its all about redundancy man.. And what do you mean by you "recertify the entire cable plant" I work for a major ISP as a Network Engineer and am curious on how you would "recertify an entire cable plant" Are you even aware of the way cable plants are built / maintained? Tweaking a system means ensuring backup ISP's are in place, UPS's are in place, and land lines are in place. Everything so that in case of a outage.. whether it be ISP, ITSP, or power related, business can continue as usual without any downtime. I understand your point, and am not debating it, but i have systems in place that are strictly voip and there doing just fine.
alex
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"recertify the entire
Thu, 04/17/2008 - 11:04pm
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"recertify the entire cable plant
I was speaking of the customers premise wiring, poor choice of words on my part.
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I work for a major ISP
I own a regional ISP
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Are you even aware of the way cable plants are built / maintained?
Spent my entire carrier in telecom, Since 1979
I spent most of my day today working with our outside plant contractor on the specifications for the cable entrance at a customer site. The customer moved to a SONET product with dual entrance. One aerial and the other underground. Complete path diversity.
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tweaking a system means ensuring backup ISP's are in place, UPS's are in place, and land lines are in place.
That's not tweaking, that's verification that system is installed to specification.
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strictly voip and there doing just fine.
My message was a bit terse, however is that not what I said? Telephony delivered via IP or TDM must meet service level criteria. I clearly stated my position that voice over the public Internet is "best effort". Managed services are designed from the ground up to meet quality and reliability metrics. These metrics are then guaranteed to the customer with a Service Level Agreement.
"Carrier Class" is tossed about too casually. Our core POP is certified TIA-942 Tier IV compliant. Our nodes are Tier III. We monitor key metrics with a managed service point at the customer premise. These metrics are used to manage our network to the SLA.
We do not try to be all things to all people, we serve one region consisting of two LATA's.
You own a regional ISP?
Fri, 04/18/2008 - 8:43am
You own a regional ISP? what kind of setup you got? I have a dual OC48 SRP local ring (15 hubs) and a OC192 Wan circuit that i take care of. i dont really deal that much with the cable plant (thats the headend guys job), but i know enough on how a cable plant works. What kind of devices are you using within your ISP? Over here our border routers consist of Cisco 12416 and Juniper devices. For within the ring we have 10720's. Have you guys deployed wide band yet ? u guys running docsis 1.1? Sorry for all the questions.. but i looove networking :)
Alex -
Quick answers - we
Fri, 04/18/2008 - 9:16am
Alex -
Quick answers - we are a small shop - no SONET
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i dont really deal that much with the cable plant (thats the headend guys job),
I was not clear in my statement last night. I was speaking simply to retest the customers wiring (if it was ever certified to start). It's the only way to make sure you don't have layer 1 problems from the start.
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What kind of devices are you using within your ISP?
Our Internet feeds are two 100Mpbs links from Level 3 and Qwest BGP peers
Internet Router: Cisco 7603 (Dual Router Processor)
Perimeter Security: Netscreeen/Juniper NS-50's HA pair (Also terminates customer VPN's)
POI Router - Cisco 7513 Dual RSP-4's - 3 Channelized DS-3's for T1 loops to customer prem
DS-3 For DSL PPPoE terminaltions - Gig for metro fiber q in q terminations
Data Center Switching - Foundry FastIron
SIP Gateways - Cisco AS5400's
Voice Service Level Assurance Platform - Edgewater Networks
Network Management - What's Up Gold and Solar Winds Bandwidth Manager
Be it ever so humble it's all ours and paid for.
Scott
SIP trunk
Mon, 04/21/2008 - 6:24am
Hi there,
I have been used varphonex since 2004 and so far there is no problem, these guy can provide a very good service. ( www.varphonex.com )
Member Since:
2008-04-16